As usual, fellow insurgent Patrick Thibodeau is on the case:


Outsourced and fired, IT workers fight back

Workers charge discrimination prompted 2010 Molina Healthcare IT layoff; file suit against employer and its outsourcer

Patrick Thibodeau
 

August 16, 2011 (Computerworld)

On the day they were fired early last year, about 40 IT employees at Molina Healthcare Inc. had been gathered in a conference room for what they were told would be a planning meeting. At the same time, laptop computers were being collected from the assembled workers' desks.

During the meeting, Molina's then-CIO, Amir Desai, informed the workers that they were being laid off for financial reasons, "not because of [their] performance."

The layoffs came amid rising tensions over a number of issues, including the expanding role of an offshore IT contractor at Molina.

The workers raised the concerns with Desai during the meeting.

"I felt they were expecting us to be asking questions about Cobra and unemployment and all that," said Bonita Shok, one of the laid-off IT employees. "Instead, we were being quite confrontational about why they are laying us off and keeping all these H-1B workers."

"I have never experienced a group of employees who were so angry," said a human resources manager who was in the meeting to answer questions from employees about benefits. The HR manager asked not to be identified.

"They felt their work was being offshored -- they were angry at the H-1B employees that were being hired," said the longtime HR industry veteran who had been hired to execute the IT layoffs at Molina, a managed health care provider that serves Medicaid and Medicare recipients. "I [had] never felt the backlash that I felt from Molina employees."

The employees, who lost their jobs in January 2010, never got answers to their questions about the company's IT outsourcing strategy.

Instead, 18 of them filed a lawsuit in California state court earlier this year against Molina, its CIO at the time and its outsourcing contractor, Cognizant Technology Solutions.

The HR employee, who was later laid off as well, is a witness for the plaintiffs in the case.

The plaintiffs contend, among other things, that they are victims of discrimination due to national origin. The lawsuit charges that the employees were fired because the companies sought to employ people "whose national origin, race and/or ethnicity was exclusively Indian," and didn't want to employ Americans or green-card holders.

Molina contends that the lawsuit is grounded in "falsehoods and malicious gossip." Cognizant has said that the lawsuit is without merit and that it "will vigorously contest it."

Desai, through his attorney, says the lawsuit is itself guilty of "an unfair discriminatory bias." Desai himself has since left Molina.

Of the workers who are part of this suit, 10 brought an earlier claim against Molina that was settled in mediation before this case was filed. The mediation agreements did not settle the case for all the workers and did not include current lawsuit defendants Cognizant and Desai.

While what happened at Molina is still in dispute, job displacement because of offshore outsourcing is a fact of life in today's IT workplace. While there are no government numbers that detail its extent, the broad outlines of the story told by the Molina workers should be familiar to other IT workers.

Outsourcing engagements often start when offshore IT services companies bring in workers, typically on H-1B or L-1 visas, to learn a company's IT processes. Then the work is moved overseas. Molina employees contend that's what happened to them.

James Otto, the attorney representing the Molina employees in the lawsuit, claims that about 200 visa-holding workers have been brought into the company.

Otto has told the former Molina IT workers that such activity is a form of segregation. "Today you're being segregated based on your national origin," he said.

Several years before the layoff, there were about 70 or 80 IT employees at Molina, according to a group of more than a dozen former Molina IT workers who met with Computerworld late last month. Many of the former Molina workers asked that their names not be published.

At that time, Cognizant had a small presence at the firm, mostly to supplement internal work. The employees said they felt no threat at the time. In fact, said Shok, "there was a feeling of camaraderie on the team."

But beginning around 2007 things started to change.

Most of the immediate IT managers were either laid off or quit, according to the employees. At the same time, the number of contractors increased. The lawsuit alleges that Desai and his management team "hire[d] and promote[d] only Indian nationals to management positions."

Desai, through his attorney, says the allegation is false. Of the six IT managers reporting to him, two were of Indian descent, he said.

"My client is dismayed both at the false allegations in Mr. Otto's lawsuit and its ethnically inflammatory undertone suggesting that Mr. Desai is biased against Americans and favors Indians solely because he is 'of Indian descent,' " wrote Desai's attorney, Edward Raskin in an email to Computerworld.

Raskin also points out that Desai was born in the U.S. and graduated from a U.S. university. He says the lawsuit avoids certain facts. "For example, some of the employees who lost their jobs at Molina were 'of Indian descent,' which contradicts Mr. Otto's suggestion that Mr. Desai and the company only favored Indians," he said.

But from the perspective of the employees, the workplace was changing.

The IT staff had been diverse, and represented seemingly every nationality, much like the population of Long Beach, Calif., where Molina is based.

The employees said they liked working at Molina, and felt they were recognized for their work, supported on the job, and were also part of a friendly environment that marked holidays with events like potluck dinners.

But the corporate culture changed as the contractors were added. The holiday potluck dinners ended while Indian workers were taken out to lunch on a major India holiday, the former Molina employees said.

Some meetings became so dominated by Indian workers that the discussions would sometimes shift to an Indian language, which added to a growing sense of isolation among the other Molina IT employees, the workers said.

"I've been to several meetings where it started off in English and then one of the Indian directors would start talking in Hindi, and then all the other Indians will start talking in the same language," said a plaintiff who asked to remain anonymous. "And then you would have to say 'hello, hello, we don't understand.'"

The HR manager who had been hired to manage the IT layoffs recalled an initial visit to the IT department. "When I walked in the IT department, all I saw were Indians. It was very difficult to find anybody in the immediate environment that was of non-Indian descent."

The former HR manager said the makeup of the department "was also a reflection of the leadership team ... the majority of [Desai's] direct reports were Indian."

The Molina workers said they trained Cognizant workers on the company's IT processes over time prior to the layoffs. They were told that the contractors were taking over all the production and their role would shift to new developments and technologies.

That explanation did little to lessen fears that they were being pushed aside. "There was a point where I felt we were just being written off," said David de Hilster, one of the laid-off IT professionals.

In the weeks leading up to the layoff, Molina employees began spending more and more time training Cognizant workers. The process became increasingly "urgent" and rushed, he said.

Another laid-off employee, Charles, said that "one person came into our department to learn all of our processes, which is impossible. We're multiple types of employees doing deployments, doing development work. No one person could possibly gather all that much knowledge in two weeks' time."

Charles asked that his last name not be used.

Desai's attorney, Raskin, wrote that his client "was trying to maintain quality and keep IT costs down at the direction of his superiors. To accomplish this, Mr. Desai worked with his managers to identify processes and projects that could be outsourced at a lower cost.

"The question was not: 'Whose job can we eliminate and replace with a contractor?' The question was: What processes are being done in-house that could be outsourced at a lower overall cost without sacrificing quality of efficiency?" he added.

Otto has assembled witnesses to support the lawsuit.

Among them is Laura Onufrock, Molina's former IT department budget manager.

In lawsuit filings, Molina said it compared the cost of imported labor to the cost of U.S. workers at the company and found that the average pay for U. S. workers was $50 per hour versus $72 per hour for the Indian contractors and $26 an hour for offshore workers, according to the lawsuit. Based on Onufrock's analysis, the lawsuit claims that after the mass layoff last year, the IT department exceeded its annual budget by over $5.5 million three months into 2010.

Onufrock isn't a plaintiff. Asked why she was acting as a witness in this case, she said, "they've done a lot of damage to people and I'm hoping I can help."

Molina disputes the contention that the outsourcing efforts didn't cut IT costs.

"American taxpayers are demanding that health care companies reduce administrative costs in order to provide better benefits at a lower price," the company said in a statement.

"Like most leading health care companies, Molina has put in place a variety of measures to reduce costs, including the outsourcing of labor-intensive administrative tasks to specialized firms. Working with Cognizant, an established leader in outsourcing, Molina embarked on a successful program to reduce its overhead so it could focus on what it does best: providing America's underserved communities with access to the best possible health care," the company said.

It is unclear how many Molina contractors were on either H-1B or L-1 visas, which are used for company transfers. The distinction is important.

Companies can hire H-1B workers without first trying to hire U.S. workers, unless they are considered "H-1B dependent" -- a status that applies to companies where more than 15% of the people in the workforce hold H-1B visas. Cognizant is in that category, but it doesn't have to prove that it tried to hire U.S. citizens before hiring H-1B visa holders for jobs that pay more than $60,000 and/or require master's degrees.

"I don't think the H-1B dependent provisions are strong enough to protect U.S. workers," said Daniel Costa, an immigration policy analyst at the Economic Policy Institute.

Molina, which employs 4,200 people, said it has less than 50 H-1B employees "and they were hired only in cases when it was necessary to cast a wider net for particular skills."

A Cognizant spokesperson said that the company has never had an employer-employee relationship "between the plaintiffs and Cognizant, and therefore the plaintiffs have no grounds for, among other things, the employment discrimination or wrongful termination claims against Cognizant."

Cognizant employs 118,000 people worldwide -- 20,000 in the U.S. The outsourcer doesn't disclose how many of its workers hold visas.

But the company did note that it has more than 60 full-time recruiters in the U.S., and that it recruited at 17 colleges and universities last year. It said it has 500 job openings in the U.S.

"Cognizant is a job creator that strives to provide our clients with the best talent available anywhere," the company spokesperson said.

A week after the layoffs at Molina, one of the fired employees said she was told by someone still working there that about 30 H-1B hiring notifications had been posted on a lunchroom bulletin board at the company. The posting indicated that U.S. workers couldn't be found for these positions. It is unclear what company was trying to fill the positions. But this wasn't the first time such notices had appeared, and it reminded this employee of what she had said earlier to someone in HR who was involved in recruitment.

"How dare you hire H-1Bs when there are so many unemployed Americans out there that fit the job description better?" the IT worker said.

 

I would be interested in hearing from any of the brave insurgents involved in this lawsuit, especially if they are in need of work and live in SoCal.


Comments (48) -


United States Drifter
August 16. 2011 11:33
Drifter

Looks like it has worked out pretty well too... NOT

Wherever the indian temp workers show up, the business starts going south. Thy just have no clue what they are doing.

-----------------------------------------

www.businessweek.com/.../D9P4IS300.htm

Idaho reduces payments to Molina by $3M

By REBECCA BOONE

BOISE, Idaho
Idaho is docking its payment to its Medicaid claim processing company, Molina Healthcare Inc., by $3 million because of the major problems the company had implementing its new system last year.

Meanwhile, the state is still trying to recover nearly $10 million in double payments that were made to Medicaid-covered health care providers amid the chaos.

Still, Idaho Department of Health and Welfare officials say the Medicaid claim processing system run by the company's Molina Medicaid Solutions unit has improved dramatically in the year since its inception.

"They've improved a lot, in all honesty," department spokesman Tom Shanahan said. "Progress has been made across the board."

Molina took over the $106 million Medicaid claims processing contract in May 2010, but it still hasn't been paid for the work by the state because Idaho officials said the company wasn't meeting the standards under the contract. The first payment -- of roughly $12 million, instead of the originally negotiated $15 million -- will go out shortly, Shanahan said

Now, Shanahan said, the company will work under a pay-for-performance plan, facing monetary penalties whenever it fails to meet contract standards. Instead of the guaranteed $1.5 million a month set under the original contract, that amount will be the maximum payment the company may receive.

The department switched to California-based Molina last year in an effort to comply with federal Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services standards. But problems arose immediately after Molina took over the contract, and thousands of payments were delayed to health care businesses that give Medicaid-covered services to the poor and disabled.

Many companies went two months without payments, bringing some to the brink of insolvency. A few went out of business altogether.

In an effort to keep the companies running, the department advanced providers a total of $117 million in interim payments in July and August. But the companies were paid again once their original claims were finally processed, and Idaho was left trying to recoup the double payments.

In March, the department had only recouped about half of the double payments, according to a report from the Office of Performance Evaluations.

By the end of last month, 92 percent of the cash had been collected, Idaho Department of Health and Welfare spokesman Tom Shanahan said. Many of the double-paid providers were set up on payment plans, so money is steadily rolling in, he said. Over the past five weeks, recoupments have averaged more than $850,000 a week.

"When you put in a system this big, there are going to be challenges," said Molina executive account manager Del Bell. Many providers weren't enrolled in the system at all, and others had trouble enrolling properly and had to re-enroll. The system also had trouble processing some types of claims, and recent Medicaid policy changes caused additional confusion.

All the problems meant providers had trouble even reaching Molina staffers for help. In July of 2010, the company was getting about 7000 calls a week from Idaho providers, and people were waiting a half an hour or more on hold before they could reach a call center representative. About half of the callers gave up before ever reaching a person to talk to.

"If we roll that forward to today, we're receiving generally between 3,000 and 3,300 calls a week. The abandonment rate is running under 2 percent, and we've been well under a one-minute wait time for the last few months," Bell said.

Claims are also being paid out faster. At the peak last year, more than 130,000 claims for payment were pending in the system, with more than half of them languishing for more than 30 days. Now there are fewer than 10,000 claims pending, and less than 5 percent of them are more than a month old, Bell said.

"So obviously that's another significant improvement in our history," he said.

Bell said he's still working with providers across the state to "rebuild that relationship."

"I think for the most part we're getting very good feedback from providers," Bell said. "That doesn't mean all providers are happy or all issues are solved ... overall I think we're getting much better reviews and they're much happier in the community."

Jodi Smith, the director of Family Support Services of North Idaho, a mental health and developmental disabilities agency, said the company has improved though there are still plenty of glitches in the system.

"There are still problems, but they're not the same problems," Smith said. "Claims are being processed fairly quickly. The system goes down periodically, and there are times when a claim is pended (delayed) for no apparent reason. But those are really minimal -- I can't complain at this time about the turnaround of claims being paid."

Smith said she was glad that the state had taken measures to hold Molina accountable. But she remains a bit skeptical over whether the pay-for-performance plan will work in the long term.

"You never know until you see it in action. But I have seen improvement, and the glitches in the system we experience now are less impactful," she said.



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United States Indian_tatti
August 16. 2011 12:03
Indian_tatti

I am waiting desperately for Infosys Ban and dancing with naked girls then...

Love to see American rising against RED DOT.

How many of you bang red dot girls. Smelly


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Denmark Indian
August 16. 2011 12:42
Indian

Tunnel rat--or what ever you are...

My Friend, i am myself an Indian and Upper class Brahmin....

Kindly understand that we indians have developed Parasitim....

We have become BIOLOGICAL parasites...

save your Land before it becomes a Dustbin.

Don't ever show mercy --this is what our hindu vedas even said..

Mercilessly and Ruthlessly Deport them..

Most Indians don't like my opinion, I am working for Danish company..

Most of the indians here hate White people, even everything that is Danish or European.

Few of my Colleagues had a Desire---he always use to say that he wanted to PEE on Danish Streets just like we do in India, but its not permitted here in Copphenburg..

One night we 4 friends were travelling alone and its 23.00 pm, 2 of my Friends Mohan Gandhi and Dhriren Raikuvar have said that this is the Right time to

Pee Of street as no one is watching us...

Both of them Infact 3 of my Urinated across Bus-stop....and after Finishing it---They were elated and Overjoyed..

You can see a sense of happiness and Joy in their faces and satisfaction of accomplishing something in Life

one of them remarked that---He detests, how clean the streets are  and its his Aim to turn them Dirty, he even said that as long as he stays in Denmark , he would Throw garbage on streets...

Few of my indian collegues from Infosys are---names --Kunal Dalwi,Binesh Phillipose,babul,Trilokanath reddy ramapuram, Sainath ratnala----

All these people were booked under the charges of sexual assault in Public transport in Cophenhagen...


Currently i work for TCS,my manager has sexual affair with my Senior Engineer--her name is Reena vasan, actually people Gossip that Reena has got onsite chance after satisfying my manager..

My managers name is ---sriram sangameswaran  


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United States Bobby Jindal
August 16. 2011 12:52
Bobby Jindal

"But the corporate culture changed as the contractors were added"


But Corporations are People!!...


Boy I cant wait for Perry or Romney to defeat Obama. Have you seen their donor list? Thanks to conservative supreme court's decision on Citizen United vs FEC, corporations/billionaires can donate and control whatever they want via secret Super PACs.


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United States proudh1bholder
August 16. 2011 13:32
proudh1bholder

Great article, looks like Molina healthcare is hiring H1B's big time, thanks for letting me know, i shall send them my resume ASAP, I am currently on a H1B btw, wonder if they process Green cards too, oh well, I guess H1B transfer is okay, I shall apply there immediately, thanks Tunnel Rat.


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United States L. Trotsky
August 16. 2011 14:10
L. Trotsky

Reminds of the time when a Sears IT representative came to DePaul University around 2001 to talk about computer careers at Hoffman Estates. The dude said US citizens were "too expensive" and that they were sending IT work to Costa Rica. Well now, it turns out this IT guy was himself from Costa Rica! Now Sears apparently doesn't even do IT work there, as far as I know. The US has imported an ungodly number of economic Trojan Horses to populate corporate IT and managerial posts to destroy America. Whenever I see an Indian slumdog name in a high corporate position, I think, "F**king Bastard took a citizen's job and I bet he's shipping work to India."

Bank of America at the 540 W. Madison building in Chicago shipped off a whole bunch of data entry jobs in their lockbox operation to India. BOA cared NOTHING about the jobs they destroyed in the USA, and this was AFTER they took TARP funs from the US government.


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United States Arrow
August 16. 2011 20:46
Arrow

Companies in the NASSCOM Cartel have something called a 'slab' averaged rate : 4 offshore people at $25 to do the grunt work and one onsite person ( almost ALWAYS Male - considering slumdog companies hate women's guts  once they experience freedom in  USA) at $75 - Totally this comes to around $175 for a 'team' of 5 , with the productivity of anywhere between 3 to 4 US workers( Cost = $250)  MINUS benefits ( around $8 to $10 for an US employee) - So the company can claim a savings of around $100 per hour for a small team . On top of this Teams from Slumdog companies are so desperate for projects that they will give outrageous commitments for fixed bid projects , and add freshly passed out grads in the offshore location at crunch time , apart from working late nights and weekends , apart from that , they are shameless and will accept reprimands from teh client when task is not done , and introduce bugs , ignore documentation etc to somehow give an IMPRESSION the project is completed . In effect its like the Client was promised a Boeing-747-400 and was given a decked up AN 124 cargo aircraft with barebones comforts. Professional Corruption is RAMPANT in NASSCOM INc.


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United States Indian_shit
August 16. 2011 21:40
Indian_shit

www.computerworld.com/.../Outsourced_and_fired_IT_workers_fight_back


Someone is talking about making documentary... Join them..

I will guide in Indian Manager Behavior


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Canada ezygoer
August 16. 2011 22:44
ezygoer

Surprising to note Molina's costs went up after bringing Cognizant and laying off it's own employees. Was the CIO's compensation tied to stock options ? This looks like the classic case of the CIO trying to reduce costs in the short term for that bonus tied to stock options but failing in the process as Cognizant could only screw up, drive costs up and cause long term reputational damage to the firm !
These guys never learn and the ex-CIO may be trying the same stunt somewhere else right now !! Stupid trade laws have allowed thirld world firms like Cognizant to operate as US corporate entities on US soil.

Will be interesting to see how this plays out and if the labor arbitrage games will be further exposed.


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U.A.E. axe
August 16. 2011 23:51
axe

2012 - vote for politicians that will outlaw H1B and send the frauds back home.  Their unholy presence has made corporate america unpleasant for not just americans but other immigrants as well.


http://dubbadubbadingding.com/http://dubbadubbadingding.com/


United States James
August 17. 2011 00:44
James

ezygoer

You have to understand how the racket works: 1) slumdog company comes in and BRIBES the US execs with NASSCOM millions. Throw $10-20 million their way and the execs roll right over. Cost analysis never enters into it. 2) JAM as many slumdogs in as you can at $100/hr, even if it makes costs go up, 3) Make sure the slumdogs are under an Indian manager so they can never get fired. 4) the army of slumdogs stays in the company as long as possible, quietly grifting out all the company's $ while doing nothing and producing nothing. US execs have been paid to shut up and allow it to happen. The army of slumdogs grabs cash out of the company (in the form of paychecks) and remits it all to India ASAP. They all sit around the water cooler and laugh at how easy it is take back the wealth the Brits "stole" from them 200 years ago. 5) US execs running the company could care less what happens to the company long-term - they've already got 10-20 mil from NASSCOM so if it goes under, what do they care. Eventually the company dies and either gets sold off (PeopleSoft, Oracle), or closes its doors and goes under (Lehman, etc).

This is now being played out all over America at every company except Apple (at least not while Jobs is still alive). These slumdog armies are invading and siphoning off our wealth. They can no more do western jobs than your dog can.

Why work, when you can just find a big fat host and CON.

That ain't workin', that's the way you do it....


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 Anonymous
August 17. 2011 03:48
Anonymous

@ Indian ,

The name sangameswaran rings an alarming bell indeed.

That sriram sangameswaran I am somewhat sure could be the brother in law of R.Sivakumar my maternal uncle now a consultant in Virginia USA. Earlier worked for a little while in Chithiraithirunal Clinic Kerala. Award winning metallurgist of Defense Metallurgial Research Lab ( DMRL) India.IIT Madras , Phd from Stonybrook University. He told me when I was a consummate callow idiot :-

" I ONNNNNLy discovered rust proof painting for aircrafts in America..thus got doctorate. Also said he flirted with American women called Barbara and some other names I don't remember. Said "they are too expensive to start with. One has to woo with flowers ...." & came to India married Rajini daughter of this uber affluent family Sangameswaran in Chennai. Was some " plant manager " I heard. For many years I thought plant manager means a successful horticulturist.

That entire family's credentials are YUCK ! Alcoholics & lecherous fuckers.Owning opulent properties in Kodaikanal etc etc. But posture as orthodox vegetarian BRAHMINS. The decrepit nine yard saree clad octogenarians included were alcohol guzzlers . Slipping into swim suits , bikins  spalshing in their private swimming pool  ....YUCK.  


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Denmark Indian
August 17. 2011 11:08
Indian

Anonymous:  WOW amazing...he is indeed brother Inlaw of Rajagopal Sivakumar who is a Doctor....Mindblowing indeed,

Could you please tell me the information about Sivakumar, is he a Crook Like Sangameswaran?..

hey anonymous..could you please get in touch with me..Please..

Sriram sangameswaran is a Pervert----he asks for sexual favors and he had an affair with several people here.

Because of him , Payal kaur a punjabi Software engineer has committed suicide, he  has abused her, some people say that she was pregnant ...which i am not sure..


I can confirm that Sangameswaran has molested atleast the DC HR and he has sexual affairs with several lady software engineers..

Anonymous...kindly get in touch with me...please  


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Denmark Indian
August 17. 2011 11:17
Indian

For all who are Cribbing about BOA--kindly understand that ---Mukesh Ambani an

INDIAN Billionaire sits in Board committee of BOA, Remember this--you americans

are screwed...


Unless you agitate and revolt and loot the INDIAN shops like London Rioters did,

nothing will happen to indians and we indians will siphon as much money as

possible


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 Anonymous
August 17. 2011 17:11
Anonymous

Tunnel Rat,

You are indeed a Godsend. It has always been America & Americans ( sans Indians in America) who have been troubleshooters all over the world. Let that status never get eroded or compromised in the name of multipolar blahblah.

Look at it any way. Sustainable eco system or as a tussle between Virtue & vice, Americans just cannot afford to shilly shally by accommodating the parasitical scum. I have always noticed this trait among Indians as far back as I can remember. As though the world consists of only this country called India & that God exists only here & all that kind of toxic idiotic ideas.

James puts it very well :-
" They all sit around the water cooler and laugh at how easy it is take back the wealth the Brits "stole" from them 200 years ago ".

John Cleese the GENIUS I admire so effortlessly encapsules this attitude in his Fawlty Towers with his unforgettable:-

" But you invaded Poland ".


The idiots called Indians just refuse to accept whatever colonizing /invasion / intermingling of cultures happened as destiny /God given /karma whatever. In fact if you think a bit it becomes very clear. They are plain jealous. No country owes them any apologies or anything. They knowingly have been electing cheats & thugs in the name of democracy. The quality of Indians as a whole makes me wince & vomit. Most of them are criminals. They have nicely lulled everyone into believing " Oh Indians are sso good sso peace loving what a culture ".


Best is to leave everything to Americans to decide. They know best. Many countries are perennially belching fire & brimstone at America . They have mastered this art of thriving on envy. India is also definitely one among them. Indians gloat over any & all troubles faced by you be it school shootings , sudden power outages & now financial crunch.

Do we want America or the rest inimical poisonous irritants also to coexist ?

The answer is obvious - America. Get rid of the parasites. The scale of the magnitude of their misdemeanours & crimes is such.


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 Anonymous
August 17. 2011 17:21
Anonymous

@ Indian ,

That you express surprise shocks me. Most Indians are perverts & lecherous gluttons. The entire world knows it.


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Canada ezygoer
August 17. 2011 23:43
ezygoer

James
I get it now so not only is Corporate America greedy and stupidly short term in their outlook as always but corrupt also. Thought it would be only a few but with the level of penetration of the outsourcers besides IBM, Accenture and Cap Gemini looks like a lot more execs are on the take besides the odd Indian origin CIO of a mid-sized firm !!

There's a lot thats wrong with America nowadays besides what the politicians tell you .. IT and manufacturing business models are classic case studies of the hollowing out of the American middle class.


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United States m
August 18. 2011 02:54
m

Indian - Why the heck are you complaining about ur manager here in this forum? You could loose ur job for doing this  If u have problems with ur manager, go talk to ur HR.

And how is your friends peeing on the street related to this forum? Call the police the next time they do it if you are so concerned.

From the way u talk, u sound like someone who are denied entry into the States and that u r jealous on the Indians who live here and u want everyone to be deported.


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August 18. 2011 11:03
tunnel rat

@m

And you sound like a typical fuckin' Hinglish-spewing slumdog from Infy/HCL/Tata/pick one.  

Get "ur" ass off of my blog, maderchod.


http://www.techinsurgent.com/http://www.techinsurgent.com/


United States Machead
August 18. 2011 19:32
Machead

@Tunnel Rat

Tunnel Rat is the laughing stock of the world, btw, his name is John Doe, you are exposed John, everyone knows who you are and they are all laughing behind your back, you are an embarrassment to the whole world. LOL.  


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U.A.E. axe
August 18. 2011 22:08
axe

Does machead think John Doe is a real name????  OH my god, there is no limit to the SHEAR MOTHER FUCKING stupidity of these Indians.

LOL LOL LOL LOL


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United States James
August 18. 2011 22:24
James

Machead,

Just shows how stupid you really are "John Doe" is a common alias used in the US to mean "anyone". It's not his real name you stupid moron.

Do you continue to claim to be a manager at Apple when you don't know what "John Doe" means?

And why is your IP address in Boston?

You are another liar and fraud.

And it's you who have just made a laughingstock out of yourself.

John Doe. BWAHAHAHAHAHAH!!! HAAAHAAAHAAA! HOOO HOOOO HOOOO! HEEE HEEE HEE!!!


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United States In Pain Now
August 18. 2011 23:40
In Pain Now

Look, I'm not one of the parties to this lawsuit, but very likely to have the opportunity in the near future.  Amir D - fomer Molin CIO is now at ACS a Xer ox company - AND DOING THE EXACT SAME THING. The staffing, off-shoring of work, resultant over-budget issues - you name it and we are seeing it. He clearly thinks he and Cogni zant will beat this case.


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United States mafalda
August 18. 2011 23:43
mafalda

Hey,

  Don't get your hopes up that Romney will help labor if he's elected.  He was a principal in Bain and Co, a VC firm that helped found the company Staples.  Staples was using H1's back in the late 1990's.  

  He's in the Billionaire Boys Club and only cares about big business.  

  P.S. - I worked with someone by the name of Sivakumar here in the States.  She looked and acted like a zombie.  Eventually, she left her slumdog husband and moved back home.


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 Anonymous
August 19. 2011 01:51
Anonymous

The issue is not computer technology alone. It is the revolting attitude of these Indians as a whole.

R.Sivakumar's brother R.Sivaprasad left first for America after doing MBBS from Tanjore Medical College. Both of them have contributed in no small measure to the suicide of my maternal aunt called Indhira only because she was not fair enough. The Sivakumar mentioned is much more dark & pukesomely lecherous. YET , their mother ( who called herself R.S. Thangam but would suddenly make a volte face asserting her name is actually Sivakamasundari died very very late few years ago in Trichy after ruining many people's lives including my late father S.Janakiraman) who is thousand Lady Macbethsesses coalesced into one was instrumental in her torture.

Indhira attempted suicide not once but several times. The truth is never going to come out of their mouths as they can provide alibis. Sathyajit Ray the only profoundly astute Indian filmmaker once said :-

" There are many kinds of violence; physical is just one form; emotional , psychological violence are more virulent all pervasive in our society but we remain so apathetic...".

The old woman  in Pather Panchali & her treatment at the hands of others is an extremely mild form of what my paternal grandmother S.Rajam underwent.

Sivaprasad & Sivakumar were entirely groomed by my mother's ( Jayalakshmi)maternal grandfather called Dr.Sambasivan a notorious one. My mother was handed over to him by her mother (R.S. Thangam) when she was 2 years old , as a girl child was not what she desired. My mother was exceptionally fair complexioned. Now you can imagine how Indhira her sister the dark skinned one would have been handled.

Thangam knew her father Dr.Sambasivan was a paedophile but could not care less.

My mother died of cancer of nerve tissue in 1994. It took tremendous effort on my part in gathering facts & piecing them all together. Because of such upbringing my mother also NEVER liked me as far back as I can remember.

Indians are extremely dangerous as is borne out again by the question posted above by @ m >>>And how is your friends peeing on the street related to this forum? Call the police the next time they do it if you are so concerned>>>

All that Sivaprasad & his wife Gita or Geetha did was handouts of few china silk sareesto my mother & the rest of us when my father died & an Osterizer blender as my wedding gift.

For decades Sivaprasad would brag he alone is the best Internist in entire AmericAAA & that he ALONE has best diagnostic skills , he ALONE was the best professor in Wright University & that Gita ALONE was the BEST computer systems architect in entire AmericAAA. That Gita & her daughters & the entire parasitical brood of Indians ALONE had mathematical skills ( "we can calculate mentally Americans cannot. Without a calculator Americans cannot even know 2 plus 2 equal four...Americans cannot spell , their English is poor with poor grammar. We win trophies after trophies in spelling contests. Even President of America was stupefied by our skills. Without us America is nothing. Our dance , music , cuisine ALONE is the BEST. Americans stand awestruck at us. All because of our great BRAHMINICAL genes....yadayada...After crossing oceans also we preserve this great culture enriching Americans and their country. Their NASA would be zero without hiiiigghhly qualified Indian technicians & engineers ....)

That is the kind of audacious spiel they invariably came up with.Nothing has changed. Today also they brag likewise as you all can see.



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 Anonymous
August 19. 2011 02:16
Anonymous

Indians mention 9/11 only because some Indians also died.They don't care AT ALL for Americans' lives or problems.

During Operation Desert Storm followed by Afghanistan Indians have invariably been ridiculing American troops with the following disdain:-

" What do they know of this terrain ? Do they have any experience at all ? They lost in Vietnam war now this. Without the help of Indians nothing can be achieved we Indians are familiar with desert terrain & guerilla warfare ".

Indians who visit their children settled in America after returning mutter:-

" Chhe , what is there in America ? All of them are so lonely & depressed people. Not at all like us. In India there is so much of life. Lots of our people have built Temples serving free food. Thus we had a good time as Indians gather there to socialise. Spiritually also Americans are clueless. Can anyone equal us , our great civilization ".  


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 Anonymous
August 19. 2011 02:39
Anonymous

That Sivakumar's wife  calls herself Rajini but suddenly would claim Rajeswari is her name.

Arranged marriage.Sangameswaran's family is extremely rich one. They gave him furnished free apartment(s) also. Not that Sivakumar & her mother demanded. Sangameswaran & Rajini were desperate about marrying IITian living in America.As she wanted to go to America followed by sponsoring of rest of her 4 brothers & their families. Which really happened. This is their modus operandi.

Because Sivakumar is alleged doctorate , scientist he was full of vainglorious bluster about his rational thinking , how Indian masses are full of superstitions like praying to God taking dips in Sacred Rivers  blahblah.

He stood unmasked when his first child Niraja ( Neeraja ?) turned out to be a girl. Undeterred he bought lots of Eysenck's IQ books & many boring gizmos telling everyone he was chiselling her intellect to be an Einstein. She was one hell of a brat.

I still cannot fathom how such Indian idiots manage to come to America. Because Sivakumar proudly beamed :-

" Do you know the brilliant question Niraja asked me ? Appa , where does the Sun go daily after sunset....Can you think of any other child in this world asking such an original question...Entry into IIT is a given for her ".

And Sivaprasad , Gita , J Mohan etc were also present listening wide eyed nodding admiringly.

When he wanted a second child Sivakumar first went to Rameswaram with Rajini ensuring with his arrogant clout all the Sacred Waters in several Tanks there  (24 if I am right) got poured on their bodies. The second child was also a girl called Nithila. Then he self congratulatorily said :-

" Naanthaan sonnaenae ( I told you , I have always maintained ) there is nothing called God. All superstitions ...our own imaginations".


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 Anonymous
August 19. 2011 04:10
Anonymous

R.S.Thangam has visited America several times. On returning would narrate:-

" So what if my son Sivaprasad is short , bald headed and plump ? There were lots of these tall , white , handsome Americans at a party hosted by them. Can you believe it...all of them queued up bending down politely before me & telling " we have always been wanting to see such a mother who gave birth to this GREAT Indian doctor " and paid lot more compliments which being in English my daughter in law Gita was hardpressed for time translate to me. And Gita is really Ambal Avatharam ( Goddess Incarnate). She wears skirt/pants remoing her mangal sutra , wiping away her bindi ( red dot) cutting her hair short for doing responsible computer work downtown. In between she was requested by American authorities to come to a nearby school to teach the kids mathematics. She being brahmin has told me never scored below 100 upon 100 in maths throughout. After coming home , she wears a saree , bindi , diamond necklace from Bapatlal gifted to her by Prasad , remaining always fresh ever smiling & goes inside the kitchen. In a jiffy makes almond halwa , pongal , vadai , serving everything in silver cups & silver platters for all the guests including the tall white Americans. She also serves alcohol to them all in the right glasses. Sings Thyagaraja Keerthanas transporting them all to a divine atmosphere. Whenever they apprehend Saturn turning towards them in a jiffy arranges for SundharaKaanda Parayanam with special savouries & sweets designed to appease each & every Planet. All served in nothing short of silver plates. No wonder they have never faced any problem in life. All good karma".


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 Anonymous
August 19. 2011 04:23
Anonymous

There is another family distant relatives. The husband's name I don't recall. He is also from IIT , took some oath before being made a Naval Architect in America. His wife is called Lakshmi. Had a son called Ramesh. Lakshmi's father Ramaswamy worked in BOAC ( British Airways ). Lakshmi worked in some bank in America. Had no qualifications other than typing & shorthand. I read a letter written by her from America shown by Ramaswamy wherein she stated:-

" These American women do work at all. Only filing their nails. I am the only one doing real work here blahblah".

She had another sister called Parvathy who married some thug like person ( both worked in  nationalised banks) producing 2 sons I believe. Bought own apartmments etc in Calcutta , Bangalore , Chennai etc. Her elder son ( don't remember his name ) was right from childhood displaying criminal credentials.  He was sent to DAV school. Not only did he steal money from home but also misguided fellow students into thuggery. The school expelled him. Very seldom do Indian schools take such a step.

I was shocked as this Lakshmi from America at once arranged for the entry of their entire family. Soon they became green card holders including that THUG. How could they get jobs also at once ?


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 Anonymous
August 19. 2011 04:34
Anonymous

There is another Indian a Bengali who lived in Delhi . I don't know his name. He is my sister Bhanumathi Das Sharma's sister in law's son.Now doing merchandising blahblah in America.Globe trotter.

While in school in Delhi , he emptied the water bottles of all his classmates  (boys & girls) as they were kept in a different room peeing inside them. He was doing that routinely. When apprehended the school did not punish him at all. These are called " childhood pranks " & condoned.

When I heard he is now an American citizen lording over some merchandising empire at once I screamed & said " But do the American authorities know his background of making others drink his urine " that criminal sister's face hardened . She said :-

" You are so MAD. THis is why we HAVE to give you psychotrpic drugs.Not only do you remember some fun filled harmless pranks. You are so uncompromising. Hinduism says one should pardon everything & be tolerant.Henceforth don't come , don't talk to us at all ".

Bhanumathi Das Sharma has been appointed a senior level adbvanced art of living teacher by none other than SSSSSSRavishankar . Criminals invariably flock together.





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United States Machead
August 19. 2011 10:18
Machead

James,

I am not saying that his real name is "John Doe", however, he is such a pussy that he has to hide behind this "placeholder" name, if he were a man of his word and has the ability to walk the talk, it would be better for him to take action instead of sitting behind his computer and whining.

My IP has got nothing to do with my current physical location btw, I can reroute to whatever location I prefer and choose to. LOL.


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August 19. 2011 10:25
tunnel rat

Now this slumdog machead is posting from the United States New York Teacher's Insurance And Annuities Association:

http://whois.domaintools.com/143.165.201.47

That is probably his real gig.  Those financials have a ton of scab slumdogs.

Of course, he is commenting with a nym and boasting of his ability to hide his IP.  That why fuckers like him need to be rounded up.  

I'll call the admin contact at  TIAA-CREF and see if I can get to the bottom of this:

RTechHandle: RC668-ARIN
RTechName:   Cattani, Robert
RTechPhone:  +1-212-490-9000


http://www.techinsurgent.com/http://www.techinsurgent.com/


United States James
August 19. 2011 11:20
James

Machead sounds like some maderchod slumdog slave owned by Infy or Wipro or worse - he gets sent around to multiple clients to do some BS for them that is why he pops up at different sites - all of them on the east coast, none of them at Apple. haha.

He calls himself machead because he dreams of working at Apple but knows he never will because a booming tech company like Apple cant get that way by hiring slumdogs who ruin companies like HP as we have just seen. So much for Indian "talent".....

Tunnel Rat is doing something - he is using his blog to expose all the faking wannabe fraud job beggars from India who have to come crawling to the USA in order to stay employed and then dont even know what John Doe means.

TR has to hide is real name because if his true identity ever got out, the Indian Mafia would hunt him down and silence him because they know everything said here is true. Slumdogs can't stand when their frauds are exposed and machead probably sits at his Dell computer all day fuming that India, Inc. Is being exposed.

And keep dreaming - you will never work at Apple in 1000 years because you are such a LOSER.


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Denmark Indian
August 19. 2011 11:27
Indian

For those who are saying that I am Jealous about indians in USA---i would like to tell them that they were completely wrong.


The reason why i am telling the information about my managers is that people should be more aware of what exactly goes in indian system and managerial process .


and the way Indians behave when they were living in Abroad


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Denmark Indian
August 19. 2011 12:37
Indian

Americans must understand what few indians have done to malaysia--in late 1980s malaysian governament have proposed a Bill for recruiting 2 million

Tamil indians into malaysia for construction,Nursery,teaching jobs

Today Malaysian Tamils have grown 800% in 15 years--they are second largest ethnic  group in malaysia

Tamilian population in malaysia today stands around 15 Million--it has climbed from 1.2 Million 10 years ago to 15 million .

The Crime rate of Indians is higher in malaysia..

90% of Rapes,murder,Racism ,Discrimination and Laying off Malaysians from work is practised by Indians

INDIANS in malaysia today constitute 18% of population---they were 1.3% of total population 10 years ago.

90% crimes are done by the Indian Etnic Immigrants

In 2000 INDIANS in malaysia started HINDRAF movement---

HINDRAF---is a HINDU liberation of malaysia Movement...Precisely , All INDIANS in malaysia are trying to BREAK Malaysia into 2 parts

Lately TAMIL Home Minister of INDIA---has said that

Malaysia has no become an INDIAN colony and we glad about the acheivements of INDIANS in malaysia

Most Indians in malaysia boast that --INDIANS contribution higher to malayisian GDP is higher than Chinese Contribution...

INDIAN minister Valayar Ravi has said

Entire Worlds Races are inferior to INDIANS---Malays,Chinese,Sinhalese(srilankans) are Born inferiors and are born for serving INDIAN Lords


In INDIA--Today we see many propagandists Repeating that---Chinese have Borrowed their ALPHABETS from  INDIA..

CHINA owes more to INDIA than anyother country..

a HINDU preist ---GOPALAN NAIR SWAMI---said,whole CHINA and Mogollian race is

Inferior to HINDU.

He even went on to say in public Television that---most chinese are sons and

Daughters of DEVADASIS who use to do sexual Favors to HINDUS


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United States Indian_Tatti
August 19. 2011 16:01
Indian_Tatti

On August 27th, Bright Future Jobs and Black Economic Council (BEC) will lead a rally to put Americans Back to Work at the Apple Computer Retail Store in Palo Alto, CA. located at 451 University Ave. The protest will begin sharply at 11:45 AM.

Please join us and let Steve Jobs and Sergey Brin know that you want them to show that they care as much about America as you do.

As the American Jobs Crisis deepens, Bright Future Jobs and the Black Economic Council aren't just talking -- we're rallying--and we already have press coverage lined up!

Raise your voice with us on August 27th, and demand that Apple and Google take a leadership role in Silicon Valley and sign the following Pledge to America:

    Recruit Americans FIRST. Have their contractors and developers do the same.
    Use HR Recruiters based in the US
    Freeze Off-shore Projects
    Start Planning to repatriate US jobs
    Show their EEO Data to San Jose Mercury News

Why are Apple, Google, Yahoo, Applied Materials and Oracle hiding their EEO hiring data from the San Jose Mercury News? What don't they want the public to see? As the American Jobs Crisis deepens, America needs to know what is really happening to hiring practices within our borders.

James Otto, the lawyer representing the IT professionals displaced from Molina, will be there and speaking to the press, along with Donna Conroy, our director.  Yolanda Lewis, a former software engineer will represent the BEC.

If you can't join us physically, how about joining us in spirit? We've had to borow to cover expenses and desperately need professionally printed posters like the one above to convey that we are serious about representing IT professionals in this fight to restore the American economy.

Any contribution you can share will do wonders for turning around the juggernaut of job loss.

The team at BFJ,

Donna C., Mike R, Brendan K., Baxter S., Barbara M., Barbara G., John R.

www.brightfuturejobs.com


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U.A.E. axe
August 19. 2011 16:58
axe

Machead has demonstrated, in one thread, the modus operandi of Indians.  
1. First the bragging.
2. Then Lying: I am a manager at Apple.  He works at TIA-CREF which is indeed full of slummies.
3. Ridiculing the host country and its people (James) on the basis of Lie in #2.
4. Making a dumb comment: John Doe
5. Pretending to know John Doe all along by explaining away stupidity with convoluted logic.

Tunnel Rat, what is the purpose of scaring these guys off by IP'ing them?  Don't you think it is good to let them expose their tricks to other goras?


INDIANS LEAVE UAE !!!!!!!!


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United States James
August 19. 2011 22:02
James

Donna means well, but she is barking up the wrong tree. Google yes, Apple no. Apple still employs mostly Americans according to LCA data. And Apple CLOSED its R&D in India in 2006. Google "Apple software logs out of India". They should be protesting out front of Oracle, Sun, Microsoft, etc., not Apple.


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United States Machead
August 19. 2011 22:26
Machead

It's funny to see all the losers here ranting about how I can use different proxy addresses to post what I want to, as said earlier I have the ability to use multiple IP addresses and locations to post what I want to, no wonder all you losers here have your panties in a bunch, it's pretty apparent that you losers haven't ever been inside an Apple building, and if you were it must have been a few decades ago, Apple has got one of the most dynamic Indian workforce working there right now, no wonder they are booming and they will continue to do so, too bad Tunnel Rat and James got fired from there due to non performance.

And it's very clear that Tunnel Rat is an insecure loser who can't do anything worthwhile and is frustrated looking at the growing number of Indians in the IT workplace, there's nothing you can do about it and it's only going to get better and better, no wonder you have to resort to using "John Doe" terminology just the way international terrorists and fraudsters use to cover up your non nonsensical blabber here, the loser who goes by the names Tunnel Rat, James, etc etc will lead a painful existence, even worse than a maggot since he can do nothing about the growing number of Indians in every tech company including APPLE. LMAO.


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Canada ezygoer
August 19. 2011 23:42
ezygoer

Another example of Corporate American greed and something I do not hear much about J1 visas:

news.yahoo.com/.../...y-job-protest-214310205.html


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United States Indian_American
August 20. 2011 01:38
Indian_American

Why  is that jerk   from Netherland  posting  personal crap on this board ??  We don't care about your family problems here.    You are making a complete fool of yourself.

Back to Blog.   I have no problems at what Tunnel Rat is saying.  Its called Freedom of speech .  He can post anything he wants  under any name he desires.

So bring it on .   Good or Bad or Ugly.   Let the Truth prevail .  

Personally speaking,   I won't lose my sleep  if Fed decide to abolish this insane  H1B guest workers program.    (  I doubt this will ever happen )

H1B program has lost its meaning and relevance .  I can't believe there is cumulative addition of 65,000 ppl in already saturated job market every freaking year. Are we out of our minds ??  Seriously .. Indian H1bs should go back and strive to make india  a better country instead of surviving through insults , humuliation and insecure future as Temps in america. If you absolutely dislike your country, there are other countries where you can immigrate/live/earn legally .    Australia, few Euros, Canada and heck even Russia    lol
  America is no longer what it used to be .    

Peace to all warring factions   !!!!!!!!!!!!    Smile



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U.A.E. axe
August 20. 2011 21:38
axe

This is what you americans may have to do: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m96FCTKHNA8


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United States James
August 20. 2011 23:38
James

Machead:

"It's funny to see all the losers here ranting about how I can use different proxy addresses to post what I want to, as said earlier I have the ability to use multiple IP addresses and locations to post what I want to"

Then why do all the IPs show up in the same general location? LOL. You're fooling no one.

"it's pretty apparent that you losers haven't ever been inside an Apple building"

Ok, then please answer the following questions:

- What is the name of Apple's original headquarters building?

- What was the name of Apple's second headquarters complex?

- What used to be on the front lawn of Apple's headquarters but which has now been taken down?

- Describe the office lighting inside the R&D complex.

- What is the name of the nearest donut shop to the R&D campus?

- Is the original building the Mac was designed in closer to R&D or closer to Apple's original headquarters?

- What is the name of the large R&D building directly to the south of R&D?

- Describe the entry atrium inside R&D 1.

- Which of the R&D buildings is Steve's office in?

"Apple has got one of the most dynamic Indian workforce working there right now"

LCA data says otherwise. LCA data says Apple employs a mere 1300 H-1Bs while Microsoft employs over 35,000. If Apple has such a huge dynamic Indian workforce, why weren't there any Indian presenters at WWDC this year?

Stop lying you are making a fool out of yourself. Apple doesn't employ many Indians in R&D. And note how this slumdog tries to deflect attention away from the fact that he never worked at Apple as claimed. If you are really a manager at Apple then please tell us your name and what projects you manage so we can verify them. I'm also waiting for you to post your email address so I can send you code samples of code I wrote at Apple. Why haven't you done that yet? Afraid of being proven wrong? EXPOSED, SLUMDOG!

"James, etc etc will lead a painful existence, even worse than a maggot since he can do nothing about the growing number of Indians in every tech company including APPLE. LMAO."

Apple doesn't employ many Indians as has already been demonstrated. Can you please name some Indian WWDC presenters this year? You may be growing in numbers in other tech companies but those companies are all dying while Americans are making Apple boom.

People are starting to ask questions about Indians and why everything they touch dies. And the US has been denying your visas because the whole country knows that India, Inc. Is one big fraud and all you do when you come here is clean out our companies and produce nothing. Enjoy your unemployment back in India, LOL!

People including Michael Moore are calling for Devan Sharma's ARREST at S&P. The world is catching on to Slumdog, Inc.


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India H1b super genius
August 21. 2011 16:16
H1b super genius

Bribe paid. Case dismissed.  


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Canada ezygoer
August 21. 2011 17:24
ezygoer

Indian_American

Can you spare us of the misery of the Business Model of the H1-B program? Please do not even think of mentioning Canada anymore. We are affected enough by the negative spillover affects already with the alphabet soup of visas - H,J,L etc applying in droves to come up North ! Thankfully the Canadian government has announced cutting immigration numbers this year. We do not want anymore labor arbitrage games here than we are already exposed to !!  


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 Anonymous
August 21. 2011 21:56
Anonymous

@ ezygoer ,

Completely agree with your reply to Indian_American above.

This multiculti effusive bonhomous embracing has only been doing insidious harm. I have personally seen this in Canada. You are very correct. Indians have nothing to contribute other than negativities like corruption , bribery , thievery , lying , cheating & bitter cussedness .

Indians never integrate. They keep pasting pictures of Nehru & Gandhi celebrating August 15 singing some "patriotic" dirges. If so why come to Canada??


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U.A.E. axe
August 21. 2011 23:04
axe

Indian_"American"

I see you are a former H1B yourself and couldn't help take a snipe at your host country.

Don't you get it?  We don't want you!  your ilk is destroying corporate cultures all over the world.  That manipulation, the ass-kissing, the back-stabbing, cheating, bragging, crappy code, management, nepotism, people skills, low EQ, avg. IQ, horrifying BO etc. etc.  3rd world countries don't want you!  Other immigrants are leaving US because they don't want to deal with you.

All those temps stay forever.  Kavita and Sumeetas drop anchor babies the way the rest of us drop turds and get citizenship.

If H1 is insane why are you glad that it will never be abolished?

And you heard what the canadian had to say, same with malaysian and emirates, uganda --- the list goes on.  








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United States Gary treller
August 22. 2011 19:22
Gary treller

And all this anti-american discrimination based on the taxpayers money(Medicaid and so one) and the governments' grants.


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