tunnel rat posted on November 22, 2010 22:31

Slashdot chimed in on the recent Computerworld article about the 20th anniversary of the H-1B, and the comments are revealing.  Here's some tidbits:

...And despite having to train her replacement, ...

I had to do the same thing at another company and he was the one who asked me what the '*' by variables mean and "what's a pointer?"

That's why when I hear some big shot at Intel, IBM or any other big corp says that they are hiring overseas because 'they can't find qualified Americans", I have to go off and mumble "Bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit. ... "

Just tell the fucking truth. They want cheaper labor. That's why as Indian salaries go up, they move to other countries.

And price does not equal value:

It's not the ones who are the best who are the problem. Maybe 1% of the H-1Bs are among the best. The other 99% are code monkeys who went to the local equivalent of a tech school, know barely enough Java or whatever to get by, and have resumes "enhanced" by agencies who specialize in such things (because their qualifications are foreign, they are unlikely to be verified by a US company). This has all sorts of bad effects, including cutting off the bottom rungs of the ladder for American grads. Why hire an unproven new grad from a non-top-10 school when for the same price or cheaper, you can get an H-1B with "5 years experience" in anything you like?

And insight from a Insurgent in a Curry Den (WTF is up with training the illiterate scabs?):

I work for a subsidiary of a large American corporation (cough....GE...cough). My department has had a consistent problem training and retaining the revolving door of TCS (Tata Consulting) and other (mostly Indian) contract workers. The maddening thing is that we're funneled by GE into dealing with these agencies because "we have no headcount" and therefore are not allowed to hire permanent employees often at salaries that American staff would be quite happy with. I came to find out that we're paying $100-110k on an annualized basis for very junior level programmers. We're talking 25 year olds...many straight out of college. Of that, TCS is probably pocketing 30-40% (or perhaps more). Instead of getting these inexperienced folks and handing wads of cash to Tata, I could pay say $100k to an American programmer with a few years of actual/verifiable work experience in our field. The employee would be happy, I'd be tickled to not have to retrain someone for that spot annually, etc. I don't know what loophole in accounting makes this "cheaper" for the US corporation since we lose a LOT of productivity due to the constant revolving door, poor employee integration/communication/etc.

More on the scabs:

I could introduce you to a woman who has twice had to train her H1B replacement, even though nobody denied that she was doing a good job. Now, she is unemployed again because her entire department was offshored - which is the end game to all this H1B non-sense.

And in case you have not heard, US tech workers were laid off by the hundreds of thousands in 2009. Practically every major tech employer laid off thousands of US workers. And the USA is suffering it's worse unemployment since the great depression.

 THERE WILL BE RETRIBUTION


Comments (20) -


United States mark
November 23. 2010 00:35
mark

Very true tunnelrat.  Firms are getting taken to the cleaners on these H1-B's because HR folks have their heads shoved completely up their asses.  

I used to work for GE until my division got outsourced to China and the operation shut down (in Calgary, Canada).  The 'corporate' IT department was a complete clusterfuck, and the software that the outsourced teams were producing was of embarrassingly poor quality.  


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United States James
November 23. 2010 00:53
James

Haha. The Indiots cannot keep the reality hidden any longer - they are so stooopid that they have to get trained by Americans in order to do the work. "What's a pointer"? Haha. LOL. ROFL. Indiots. Guess you won't be getting any apps into the app store anytime soon. Wannabe losers. Disgusting degenerate slumdog leeches. Perverted, preening, delusional desis. Wannabe losers from a mudhole who want to be like us.

Americans need to start doing what I do: at the first sign of being asked to train slumdogs, drop the whole project in their lap, get up, and walk out. I refuse to train anyone. Drop the whole mess right in their laps. In fact I did just that at a project a few years ago - wrote the product for them in 4 months flat and when the time came to train the slummies in the company in my work, I JUST DISAPPEARED. HAHAHA.

You're not getting my genius, you turd world scumbags.


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United States BigR
November 23. 2010 07:08
BigR

You trolls can play all the silly games you want, that would do little to change the ground reality. Any hallucinating idiot can write stuff like
'Oh gee, I am so good, I work in blah, blah MNC..Indiots are taking over all the IT jobs...They are oh so stupid...They wreck all the projects...But nobody touches them because everyone is controlled by bankers....India got missiles from China so they threatened US to accept H1Bs.....Boeing planes are flopping because of Indian techies....Ireland, Greece, Spain, Iceland etc are going down the drain because of H1B visa....But hey, don't worry, don't ya know we are winning..Rand Paul will take care of everything..I fix projects screwed up by Indiots...I wrote $100m software'

All varieties of delusional idiots can be found among these so called insurgents.


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November 23. 2010 11:19
tunnel rat

Troll?  WTF?

Some delusional Desi douchebag like BigR, (CodeCorrector's replacement) spends his days taunting Americans, and then has the nerve to call *them* trolls.  They have on every forum.  

Typical stupid fuckin' slumdog.  No wonder they are hated everywhere they go.


http://www.techinsurgent.com/http://www.techinsurgent.com/


United States James
November 23. 2010 11:59
James

Here here Rat!

At least we got rid of Anil when I exposed who he was. What a stupid moron. Did he really think I would't know who he was after he went on about my.... Ahem... unusual physical characteristics? What an idiot!

And the Indiots who have time to come here have provided nothing in the way of proof as to what they've personally accomplished - despite what we have shown to have done.

Probably some benched H-1B TCS losers skulking around like they always do - jealous of Americans.


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United States Heartlander
November 23. 2010 16:12
Heartlander

Indians are culturally tone deaf when it comes to interpreting America. So how did Carly Fiorina lose a well funded campaign in a nationwide Republican sweep against a tired old hack like Boxer? Did you see the ads Boxer ran against Fiorina? Every time such an ad ran, Boxer pulled ahead. When Boxer moved to the abortion issue, Carly surged. Boxer went back to outsourcing - and won the election. And, although Blanche Lincoln lost, she beat back a challenger in the primary when her supporters ran ads accusing him of favoring outsourcing. Outsourcers like IBM are being sued for shoddy work - it used to get swept under the rug. Skilled workers are organizing and protesting and lobbying. The UK is cutting back on skilled worker visas. How long till the US follows suit?


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United States On the Warpath in Detroit
November 23. 2010 19:25
On the Warpath in Detroit


@BigR

"They wreck all the projects..."

And your point being?


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United States Drifter
November 23. 2010 19:32
Drifter

Oh yeah, outsourcing is growing out of control. I mean really, look at the articles all over web preaching about the incredible quality of indian IT work, the honesty and the stellar ROI. It's viral! Everyone is writing about it and the comment sections of the articles about the new Infosys operating system, the Wipro graphics editing suite, the Satyam office suite, and the new hardware from HCL! Geez... we're packing it in over here in the west. Nothing left to work for, we better work on our maths.

Yeah, you guys are right on top of it. LOL


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United States debug
November 23. 2010 23:54
debug

@drifter - which news are you reading...economictimes and rediff...just indian lying newspapers..
yup some CIO WILL READ ECONOMICTIMES  is the same chance a CIO will read and post in Immigration Voice Forum


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United States BigR
November 23. 2010 23:56
BigR

"Oh yeah, outsourcing is growing out of control. I mean really, look at the articles all over web preaching about the incredible quality of indian IT work, the honesty and the stellar ROI. It's viral! Everyone is writing about it and the comment sections of the articles about the new Infosys operating system, the Wipro graphics editing suite, the Satyam office suite, and the new hardware from HCL!"

This only goes to show how logically challenged you are. HCL, Infosys, Satyam etc cannot write their own OS or develop new hardware. That's precisely why they are into outsourcing. If Indians could develop ipods or ipads, they won't be lining up for H1B jobs and US companies won't afford to employ them.  The multi-billion dollar outsourcing industry is probably mostly about grunt work. Those who are doing real IT work in USA are doing OK, but 'IT grunts' with a sense of entitlement are suffering. May be the corporations don't want to pay six figure salaries for run of the mill IT jobs. That's why IT outsourcing exists and will continue to exist and grow for a long time to come.





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United States James
November 24. 2010 01:39
James

You forgot the electrical system software written by HCL and BANNED by the FAA.

LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ. LOLZ.

India is a mofo joke.


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United States NM
November 24. 2010 03:43
NM

OMG..I love this site..I thought i was the only one that now of these a***es.

Apex, in particular are such big fraud in hiring 25 year old with fake resume right out of college and i saw it with my own two eyes..

How do i report these individuals, i know them by the dozens who are still employed by Apex??


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November 24. 2010 11:19
tunnel rat

NM:

Send me an email to tunnelrat at techinsurgent dot com with info on Apex.  I can put you in touch with the authorities and/or a lawyer.


http://www.techinsurgent.com/http://www.techinsurgent.com/


November 24. 2010 11:31
tunnel rat

Big R:

Yeah, I guess my 15 years of experience, superior communication skills, commanding grasp of all aspects of the Microsoft development stack, ability to lead teams, design complex enterprise systems, and present technological concepts to senior management just makes me a disposable commodity, easily replaced by any "fresher" from the land that time forgot.

Keep dreaming, you delusional, taunting fuck.  I enjoy stopping the barbarians at the gate; in fact they never get past the first round of interviews if I am involved.

All you have to do is ask the fresher "debeloper" with a supposed "Oracle Certification" to write a PL/SQL query to get the current date, and watch them start to cry as they scribble garbage on the whiteboard.

And why do you slumdogs always start to cry in interviews?  Is that why your mommies or sisters have to pick your wives out for you?



http://www.techinsurgent.com/http://www.techinsurgent.com/


United States NM
November 24. 2010 11:41
NM

To: TunnelRat

I will defiantly email you the fake resume it was given to me as proof from the employee that Apex falsely made to some of these workers and took the telephone interview for them and the only interview. And to make matters even worse, they got them a job at Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac in Mclean, VA..No wonder we needed a bailout for them!!

Tell me what you need i will forward it to you.


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United States James
November 24. 2010 13:39
James

BigR,

"This only goes to show how logically challenged you are. HCL, Infosys, Satyam etc cannot write their own OS or develop new hardware. That's precisely why they are into outsourcing. If Indians could develop ipods or ipads, they won't be lining up for H1B jobs and US companies won't afford to employ them."

Thanks for admitting they are incompetent. If they can't develop their own software what makes anyone think they can do it for others? In fact we all know these enterprises are really just gigantic elaborate cons aimed at siphoning the wealth out of western companies and into India under the guise of outsourcing and the "Indian IT powerhouse" which doesn't exist. Except for the their paid-for PR fake news and paid-for Tom Friedman books, these losers have zip. Just a front - a faking fraud, designed to rob America.

"The multi-billion dollar outsourcing industry is probably mostly about grunt work."

Really? What about all the innovation hype? Thanks for admitting that is just another huge fraud too.

"Those who are doing real IT work in USA are doing OK, but 'IT grunts' with a sense of entitlement are suffering."

The people who worked for decades long before you got here are entitled to the jobs because they worked to earn them, Indiots R Us didn't. Besides, U.S. Federal laws says Americans are entitled. Try reading up on Title 8, Section 1182 INADMISSIBLE ALIENS.

"May be the corporations don't want to pay six figure salaries for run of the mill IT jobs. That's why IT outsourcing exists and will continue to exist and grow for a long time to come."

How about 6 figures for a superstar programmer who brings in $5-$20 million for his employer. Using your logic, everyone who makes a lot should be outsourced. So why aren't superstar atheletes, CEOs, or stock brokers outsourced? They make millions and the company seems fine to pay for their huge salaries. Can't have it both ways. If you argue Americans cost too much, then it should be applied across the board, not just to American IT workers. And good software development is more creative than grunt work. Talented, creative people should be paid more. Maybe you can go tell Tom Cruise he should only make $7.50/hr for his next movie. Yeah, good luck with that.


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United States Drifter
November 24. 2010 14:59
Drifter

R - you are at least partially right, the outsourcing companies don't develop apps or hardware. The indian 'IT industry' is merely temp workers. There aren't any suites, operating systems or hardware because there is no indian IT industry. No innovation, no creative thinking, no learning from mistakes. india is trying convince the world they are players merely though association with the Western IT sector. And who came up with 'Silicon India'!!! You guys want it so bad you can taste it but don't know how to get there, you even lack originality. More association.

I've got to ask - you all have had 10 years of the finest IT training the world can offer and you STILL haven't picked up the ball and started running with it. Why would a country continue to focus on an industry that exists soley at the discretion of another country's interests? If (sorry, WHEN) the visa program ends or gets turned back, all those major outsourcing rackets are going to fall over. It's a house of cards. Logic would dictate the long term view; being self sufficient and creating your own marketable products but there is NOTHING. We've walked you through it time and again but nobody is sharp enough to do anything with it.

And lets just say for example that in the next 5 or so years india mangages to turn something marketable out - consider the reputation you have given yourselves. The fraudulent practices, the corruption and the questionable quality are not uncommon. It's a steep uphill sell to the rest of the global marketplace considering you've painted yourselves into a corner as poseurs and cheap labor racketeers.

You don't develop ipods or ipads because you can't or you would have already. In the end, it's always true. You get what you pay for. That's why people charge a premium price for a superior product. If you want to aim low and cater to the low end that's fine but you can't preach at the same time that there is superior quality and knowledge down there.


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November 24. 2010 19:30
tunnel rat

Tiny Israel has more commercial apps than the fuckin' hindoos.  Even Scandanavia is virtual hothouse of IT development compared to the curry-scented shithole called India.


http://www.techinsurgent.com/http://www.techinsurgent.com/


United States Heartlander
November 25. 2010 03:11
Heartlander

So BigR is reduced to the ancient canard about American technicans wanting 6 figure salaries for low-level work? God, I haven't heard that in a while. Washtech debunked that one over a decade ago. The average American techie never earned more than a barely middle class living if that. But that was too much for the pointy haired bosses and enough to make Indian wannabes lick their chops and sharpen their claws.  


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United States James
November 27. 2010 03:28
James

First of all, in this day and age $100K a year in America isn't much - just a middle class living as you said. Now $250K+, yeah, that's a good living. In places like CA where costs and taxes are outrageous $90K is just break even. So one really needs to make $200K to live well after all the bills are paid. $100K for difficult technical work - oftentimes for products that bring in 10s of millions of dollars? That ain't jack. Let me clarify for our esteemed BigRetard since his pinhead brain is unable to figure it out.

- A top stockbroker who brings in $3 million a year for his company makes around $1 mil a year - around 30%

- A superstar baseball player who brings in $500 million a year for his franchise brings home around $80 million - around 16%.

- A top movie actor who brings in $400 mil for the studio gets paid a cool $20-$30 mil per movie - around 10%.

- BUT a top superstar programmer who spends 12-16 hours a day perfecting great software for his employer that brings in $20 million a year for one good product? OH YOU GET $50K AN WE'LL EVEN COMPLAIN THAT IS TOO MUCH. A top programmer who brings in $20 million makes a mere 0.25% of the total revenue! Not even ONE percent which would be $200K a year.

Why are great programmers the only underpaid superstars? No one else brings in so much $ and is paid so little.

Maybe the best the Indiots can do it make $50K because their work is crap and they are incapable of producing their own OS or commercial apps but American superstar programmers, we're getting ripped off.

If programmers were stock brokers, the above figure would be $6.5 million a year.

If programmers were athletes, the above figure would be $3.2 million.

If programmers were movie stars, the above figure would be $2 million.

But $100K for good coding spending long hours perfecting good software is too much? Give me a break. You delusional commie-Indiots are living back in 1995. Top talent demands compensation or it will go elsewhere. Don't make the Indocommie mistake of thinking all people are equal and all people deserve equal pay as wage-leveling commie Greenspan said.


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