The days are numbered for slumdog sweatshop Infosys and others like it (HCL, Tata, WiPro, Apex, etc.)  Dan Rather is on the case, and tonight featured fellow insurgent Donna Conroy of on his HDNet show.  Rather was reporting on the still-obscure lawsuit by Infosys gora Jack Palmer, who blew the whistle on the massive visa fraud at Infy AND IS NOW GETTING DEATH THREATS.

Welcome to the Insurgency, Mr. Palmer.  Keep a loaded 9mm handy in case you have to aim for the red-dots, as I do.

Here is the Infosys segment from Rather's show:

Rather wants to hear from you -- send your H-1B horror stories to!

Donna was great -- articulate and convincing.  Her plan is to have all the goras apply for these secret slumdog-only jobs, and I wish her luck. 

Here is Donna's press release:

Bright Future Jobs

As you know, many American companies brazenly post H1-b only want ads or OPT (foreign student on-the-job training visa) only want ads, a modern day equivalent of segregated hiring.

But how many of you know that companies are posting job ads for foreign citizens who hold a business or tourist visa?!

You'll learn about this tonight at 8pm Eastern, on Dan Rather Reports.  His team interviewed Donna Conroy.  Then they interviewed a few members of BFJ at a local cafe in Chicago - including Baxter Swiley, our fundraiser and political director.

This story is a turning point in our struggle to make companies seek local talent first for jobs in our own country.  They will be featuring some of these jobs ads right on camera -- along with featuring our new site.

Organizing IT professionals into a Political Force and Putting Americans Back to Work

This is our goal at Bright Future Jobs. We have the talent and ingenuity to do so and history is on our side.

Did you know that two young men who started the Lunch Counter Sit-ins were science and engineering majors?  We're following in their foot steps to digitally re-master the lunch counter sit-ins by applying to these discriminatory ads.  We have posted B1, H1-b and OPT only want ads -- and revealing a hidden job market unavailable to Americans.  Check back often for more jobs.  It's one way to put Americans back to work and stop the offshoring of our jobs!

This discrimination has been impacting our economy for decades and is now a stumbling block to our economic recovery. We need your help to continue our efforts to build public awarness.  We've got alot of work ahead of us.

Tune in to Dan Rather Reports tonight at 7pm Central on the HDnet channel.

If you're in Chicago, stop by at the Hop Haus, for a watch party!
  Get there by 6:30pm; it's located at 7545 N. Clark St.

The BFJ Team,

Donna, Mike, Brendan, and Baxter



What I like about this case is that Ralph DeVito, a fellow insurgent, is not only suing Infosys, but also  Monster, like, is another criminal enterprise that aids and abbets the slumdog slave traders by running their discriminatory ads placed by Desi bodyshops.

Infosys job ad automatically rejected older workers, claims lawsuit

New Jersey man said he was automatically excluded from job because, at 58, he has more than 25 years of experience

Patrick Thibodeau

March 17, 2011 (Computerworld)

A federal lawsuit claims that requirements in job ads posted by India-based offshore company Infosys Technologies automatically discriminate against older workers.

Ralph DeVito, a New Jersey resident who filed the lawsuit, had applied for two tech job openings advertised by Infosys on

One Infosys job posting set a "maximum experience" requirement of 15 years, and another set a limit of 25 years.

DeVito filled out the online forms but his applications "were immediately and automatically rejected" because he didn't satisfy the maximum experience requirements, according to his lawsuit.

DeVito, who was 58 when he applied for the jobs, has more than 25 years of experience in the jobs sought.

"Simply doing the math, 25 years' experience boxes out anyone who is over 40," said John Roberts, an attorney at Arseneault Whipple Fassett & Azzarello in Chatham, N.J., who represents DeVito.

Infosys said it doesn't comment on pending litigation.

Monster Worldwide was also named in the lawsuit. A spokesman for the jobs site said that "all the processes therein were designed and controlled by Infosys and hosted on Infosys website."

The lawsuit contends that Monster should have known that "maximum experience" requirements "constituted a de facto age limit."

According to the lawsuit, DeVito believed he had met the job requirements.

One of the job ads, provided by his attorney, sought a senior principal infrastructure consultant. Among the skills required was the ability to demonstrate expertise in at least one core infrastructure area -- systems management, operations, database management or network management.

The experience requirement in the ad was exceedingly narrow. It sought a candidate in an "expected experience range" of between a "minimum 12 years & maximum 15 years."

As a rule, job ads that appear to have tailored requirements have drawn the attention of H-1B opponents. Companies hiring prospective foreign workers carrying a a green card, which allows permanent residency, must first advertise the job to show that no qualified Americans are available for it.

A videotape of a workshop for lawyers about this process, distributed on YouTube by the Programmers Guild, however, explained how employers can legally reject qualified U.S. applicants.

The Infosys job ads cited in the lawsuit appeared in mid-2009.

DeVito initially filed a complaint with the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. In November, the EEOC, in a letter to DeVito, wrote, "We found that you were discriminated against in violation of the ADEA (Age Discrimination in Employment Act)."

The EEOC also told DeVito that it was unsuccessful in an attempt "to facilitate a successful conciliation" between the parties. The EEOC decided not to bring a lawsuit, but told DeVito that he had a right to sue. The EEOC doesn't file lawsuit every time it rules a complainant was discriminated against.

That lawsuit was filed late last month.

According to U.S. labor data, the recession hit older tech workers hard. For computer professionals, age 55 years and older, the unemployment rate jumped overall from 6% to 8.4% from 2009 to 2010. For men it was 8% and for women, 9.4%.

Most of Infosys workers in the U.S. are from India and are using either H-1B or L-1 visas. But a recent lawsuit also cites its use of the B-1 visa, a visitor visa. Last fall Infosys said it had plans to hire 1,000 U.S. workers.

DeVito is seeking a jury trial and damages.

The party is over, maderchods.  Even the high-tech junta and its castrated collaborators in the media have figured out that outsourcing to slumdog sweatshops is a losers game:

"Given the intangible costs of sending work 10-to-12 time zones away, and the lower quality of the work -- which six people interviewed for this story said was not yet on par with U.S. software development -- the pure arbitrage game may soon be history. "


"Rising salaries dull the allure of offshoring Commentary: Sending jobs overseas wholesale will soon end"

tunnel rat posted on March 17, 2011 10:31

In honor of St. Patrick's Day, fellow Insurgent Babu Rude Boy passed on this ditty, sung to the tune of "No Irish Need Apply":


I'm a citizen just graduated

Cum Laude from Stanford;

I want a situation, yes,

And want it very bad.

I have seen employment advertised,

"It's just the thing," says I,

"But the dirty gunda ended with

'No Gora Need Apply.' "


"Whoa," says I, "that's an insult,

But to get the place I'll try,"

So I went to see the chutia

With his "No Gora Need Apply."


Some do count it a misfortune

To be christened John or Dan,

But to me it is an honor

To be born American.


I started out to find the house,

I got it mighty soon;

There the madar chod was seated,

Reading news from Pune.

I told him what I came for,

When he in a rage did fly,

"No!" he says, "You aren’t Desi,

And no Gora need apply."


Then I gets my dander rising

And I'd like to black his eye

To tell a Gora gentleman

"No Gora Need Apply."


Some do count it a misfortune

To be christened John or Dan,

But to me it is an honor

To be born American.


I couldn't stand it longer

So I grabbed him as he sit,

And gave him such a welting

As he'd get from any Brit.

He hollered, "Vishnu help me,"

And to get away did try,

And swore he'd never write again

"No Gora Need Apply."


Well he made a big apology,

I told him then goodbye,

Saying, "When next you want a beating,

Write `No Gora Need Apply.' "


Some do count it a misfortune

To be christened John or Dan,

But to me it is an honor

To be born American.


tunnel rat posted on March 11, 2011 02:04

Here's a good article from San Diego, taking a swipe at Qualcomm, the notorious Curry Den known as "Little Calcutta."  I've been getting a lot of traffic lately from Qualcomm IPs, so the slumdogs that make up 60% of QCOM employees must be getting interested in my rants (or paranoid about a displaced American techie like fellow Eastern European George Jakubec blowing up their MindLance guest house), or the collaborators (like 'pellis') that make up the rest of the company fear that they may get accidently "pushed" in front of the SD trolley on their way to a drunken binge in TJ:

Are American Engineers in Short Supply?

Back in 1950, almost 31 percent of working Americans had manufacturing jobs. Now the figure is below 10 percent. Many analysts put the blame on American companies that sent such jobs to low- and slave-wage nations during the offshoring wave that picked up momentum in the 1980s and hasn’t stopped. Controversy rages.

There is plenty of bitterness, too, about the H-1B visa program that flows the other way: well-educated foreigners come to the United States and take good jobs, largely in high tech. Congress set up the program in 1990, although its roots go as far back as 1952. Under H-1B, foreigners with at least a bachelor’s degree take jobs in a variety of fields including biotech and law. Their three-year stay can be extended to six, and longer under some circumstances. Originally, H-1B visas were to be limited to 65,000 a year; that number was extended to 195,000 for 2001–2003. In 2008, 276,000 visas were issued.

The rationale is that there is a shortage of trained Americans for such employment. Nonsense, howl American engineers. The importation of foreign workers is just one more method to keep wages down and profits up, they claim. The United States Department of Labor is supposed to make sure that foreign workers do not displace Americans or adversely affect their wages. But American tech workers say the department is failing at both tasks.

The late Nobel Prize–winning economist Milton Friedman called H-1B a corporate subsidy. “It’s corporate welfare,” says Norman Matloff, professor of computer science at the University of California Davis. The H-1B program “is fundamentally about cheap labor,” he says. Foreign workers are often paid less than their American counterparts. “Most H-1Bs are under 30, and since younger workers are cheaper than older ones in both wages and health care costs, employers use the H-1B program to avoid hiring older [those over 35 years of age] Americans,” Matloff says on his website.

San Diego–based telecom Qualcomm, the biggest local tech employer (except hospitals), is the eighth-largest American corporate user of this program, according to the publications Bloomberg Businessweek, Computerworld, and InformationWeek. The others, in order, are prominent techs, accounting firms, and consulting firms: Microsoft, IBM, Oracle, Intel, Ernst & Young, UST Global, and Deloitte Consulting.

“Qualcomm is in the forefront of lobbying in favor of H-1B,” says Matloff. “It’s in the vanguard, one of the most vociferous lobbyists for it.”

I asked Qualcomm a number of questions, such as: Is there a shortage of tech engineers, particularly software engineers, that makes H-1B necessary? What percentage of Qualcomm’s workforce comes from the H-1B program? How much does Qualcomm spend lobbying for H-1B? Are those who come to the United States underpaid and thus contributing to a decline in wages for American engineers?

After several days of cogitation, the company would only say, “Qualcomm utilizes the H-1B program as necessary to recruit and retain the best talent in the world. We support bipartisan, sensible reform of the employment-based immigration system so that U.S. employers continue to have access to the talent they need to innovate, create American jobs and grow the U.S. economy.” Qualcomm is a member of Compete America, which pushes for the H-1B program. Qualcomm sent me some of Compete America’s literature, along with arguments compiled by another advocacy group, the National Foundation for American Policy.

In an interview with in 2008, Qualcomm chief executive Paul Jacobs estimated that 60 percent of the university graduates the company hires are born abroad.

In January, the U.S. Government Accountability Office completed a study of the H-1B program. Congress had asked the agency to see if H-1B helped corporate innovation or harmed American workers. The agency concluded that the number of H-1B workers at any given time is unknowable because of flaws in the tracking system. The agency found a small percentage of instances in which the foreign worker was being paid less than the prevailing wage. The Department of Labor gives only a cursory look at H-1B applications, the study found. And there is no legal provision for holding employers accountable when they hire foreign workers through staffing companies. Generally, the report’s findings represented classic bureaucratic waffling.

The most interesting finding was that 46.9 percent of the workers come from India and 8.9 percent from China.

The National Foundation for American Policy proclaimed that the study undermined the assertion that companies hire H-1B professionals only because they will work cheaply. Adjusted for age, the foreign workers earn the same or more than their American counterparts, according to the foundation, citing the study. Matloff, however, cites two congressional studies and academic reports showing that H-1B workers are often paid less than Americans.

Senators Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, and Dick Durbin, D-Illinois, have cosponsored a bill seeking to end alleged loopholes in the program. Citing long-running “fraud and abuse” in the H-1B program, Grassley says, “It’s time we get the program back to its original intent where employers use H-1B visas only to shore up employment in areas where there is a lack of qualified American workers.” The proposed law would tighten up enforcement in several areas.

One former Qualcomm employee says he was in a group of 30 engineers, 20 of whom were Indian nationals, mostly H-1Bs. “I don’t think I am being racist, but it was tough to fit into a group that had their own culture and social dynamic,” he says, quoting a fellow worker who called the system “modern-day indentured servitude.” Other critics have used the same language. This ex-employee says he has “a soft spot for immigration” because his parents came from foreign countries. However, “companies take advantage of this [H-1B] process to fill their workforce with people who can’t easily change jobs and work hard and keep their mouths shut, since they’re afraid of losing their jobs and status.”

Another former employee who reapplied during the recent downturn claims that 80 percent of Qualcomm engineers are foreigners brought in during the past ten years — mostly from India. He claims that he had a job interview with a manager who was an Indian national. The former employee was told he was “too senior” with too much job experience, he says, and the interview was aborted. I asked Qualcomm about that, but it was one of the many questions that went unanswered. “I grew up being antiunion and a conservative Republican, but nowadays I’m seeing global labor being exploited by large companies to such an extent that I feel that labor protections are needed,” says this engineer.

Sorrento Valley, where Qualcomm is located, has picked up the sobriquet “Little Calcutta.” That smacks of xenophobia, but at some point, it seems, the company may have to give more information on its H-1B program to American engineers.

Meanwhile, in other news the Collaborator Coward Don Tennant, aka "Mumbai Don", has seen fit to wade into the globalist gladiator pit and chime in on the Dice boards:

Regarding this statement:

"Don salivates all over the Brokaw piece, and paints all H1B critics as 'Tunnel Rats.'"

I suspect that many people don't know that "Tunnel Rat" is the pseudonym used by one of the more extreme readers who posted comments. I trust it was unintended, but your statement could imply that I refer to all H1B critics as "Tunnel Rats." I have never used, and would never use, the term. If you are familiar with my writings, I trust you know that. You also took the liberty of changing my qualifier in referring to the more extreme readers from  "way too many" to "all." Do not make up positions that I do not hold and attribute them to me.

In response to your question, I'm comfortable that my position is fully explained in my post. I'm confident that any fair-minded person who reads the post will find your comments unsettling.

Don Tennant

What a douchebag Don Tennant is.  He banned me from his blog because he didn't like the rhetorical race war his flame-baiting posts were inciting.  I am sure his ITBusinessEdge sponsors at MSFT, HP, and QCOM didn't like to see their ads adjacent to comments attacking the slumdog slave trade.

Feel free to drop him a line, insurgents.

There will be retribution for that collaborator.

How pathetic. Liberal icon Tom Brokaw groveling at the lap of Vivek Wadhwa, peddling the reverse brain drain myth. Picking on the poor "geniuses" we are sending back to India is not politically correct. Nevermind that this slumdog Kunal Bahl launched Snapdeal, which is an identical clone of Groupon, a site launced by Americans in America.

This is typical of the Indian inability to innovate and tendency to merely emulate. Until the liberals get it, American techies will be pinned between the pro-business right and the anti-American left. Brown man good, white man bad seems to be the mantra, and Brokaw the collaborator bought the H-1B lie hook, line, and sinker. Americans would be better off watching Dan Rather's hard hitting pieces on visa fraud that he has been reporting on at HDTV.

Visit for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy

You can read the transcript and comment here.  Fire for effect, insurgents.


Posted in:   Tags: ,
tunnel rat posted on February 26, 2011 12:50

Hey, Insurgents, spread this far and wide. This should be a lesson to any gora that thinks that they can work in the slumdog slave trade:

Large-Scale Visa Fraud Alleged at Infosys

HAYNEVILLE, Ala. (CN) - Infosys, which employs more than 15,000 foreign workers in the United States, systematically commits visa fraud and tax fraud to increase profits, and threatened and retaliated against a "principal consultant" who called them on it, the man claims in Lowndes County Court. On its Web page, Infosys describes itself as specializing in business consulting and strategic IT services outsourcing, with 2010 revenue of $5.7 billion, and 127,779 employees.
     In his complaint, Jack Palmer says he worked for Infosys "as a Principal - Enterprise Solutions" since August 2008.
     Many of Infosys' 15,000 foreign nationals who work in the United States do so on H-1B visas, Palmer says: "Infosys is an H-1B dependent corporation and is one of the biggest 'users' of the H-1B program."
     After the federal government restricted the H-1B program, in 2009, Palmer says, he was sent to Bangalore, India, for "planning meetings."
     "During one of the meetings, Infosys management, discussed the need to, and ways to, 'creatively' get around the H-1B limitations and process and to work the system in order to increase profits and the value of Infosys' stock. The decision was made by management to start using the B-1 visa program to get around the H-1B restrictions.
     "Under the law, the B-1 visa category applies to temporary business visitors who come to the United States to conduct activities of a commercial or professional nature, such as consulting with business associates, negotiating a contract, or attending business conferences. Individuals on B-1 visas are prohibited by law from working in full time jobs in the United States.
     "During the course of his employment, plaintiff learned the Infosys was sending lower level and unskilled foreigners to the United States to work in full-time positions at Infosys' customer sites in direct violation of immigration laws. Plaintiff also learned that Infosys was paying these employees in India for full-time work in the United States without withholding federal or state income taxes. Plaintiff also learned that Infosys overbilled its customers for the labor costs of these employees.
     "In order for a foreign Infosys employee to obtain a B-1 visa, an American employee of Infosys had to write a 'welcome letter,' basically stating that the employee was coming to the United States for meetings rather than to work at a job."
     Palmer says that Infosys managers in the United States and India asked him to write false welcome letters, and he refused. On July 1, 2010, he says, he "was asked to join a conference call in regards to his refusal to write the 'welcome letters,' during which call plaintiff was chastised for not being a 'team player.'"
     Then he was transferred to another project in a different division, Palmer says. There, he says, he "soon learned that Infosys was illegally employing B-1 visa holders on that project as well." Infosys asked him to rewrite the contract for that project, and he refused, "because he knew that the purpose was to try to cover up Infosys' overcharging this customer by using the lower-income B-1 employees and charging the higher pay rate for specialized employees," according to the complaint.
     Palmer says he called Infosys corporate counsel, Jeff Friedel, and explained the violations to him. Friedel is not named as a party to this lawsuit.
     In September 2010, Palmer says, an Infosys manager from India "confirmed the violations, but stressed to the plaintiff that it was important to 'keep this quiet.'"
     Palmer says he got "further pressure, harassment and retaliation for refusing to be a part of the illegal conduct."
     At Friedel's urging, he says, he filed a report with Infosys' "Whistleblower Team," on Oct. 11, 2010. But the whistleblower team "failed and refused to promptly investigate plaintiff's report and still refuses to thoroughly and fairly investigate and correct the illegal conduct," Palmer says.
     Since filing his report, he says, he has been "subjected to constant harassment, threats, and retaliation" including "numerous threatening phone calls;" monitoring of his emails; "racial taunts or slurs, including being called 'a stupid America' and criticized for being a Christian;" refusal to pay his bonuses; refusal to "reimburse him for customary and substantial expenses;" and being forced to work more than 70 hours a week "without appropriate compensation."
     Palmer says he reported to Friedel that Infosys was breaking other laws, including "failure to pay federal and state income taxes; falsification of I-9 forms; and the fraudulent and illegal documentation of aliens." And he claims that Friedel "admitted by electronic mail and via phone calls that Infosys was and is guilty of visa fraud."
     Palmer says he repeatedly reports the "threats and retaliations" to Infosys human relations department and to corporate counsel, and they refused to do anything about it.
     He seeks punitive damages for breach of contract, expenses, intentional infliction of emotional distress, outrage, negligence and wanton misconduct, and legal misrepresentation and fraud. He is represented by Kenneth Mendelsohn of Montgomery. 

tunnel rat posted on February 23, 2011 23:38

Finally, a web site that sums up all the tricks that you need to know about displacing an American techie!  Although you may end up with a hollow point in your brown, curry-scented forehead, getting H-1B visa is worth it.  Hell, no risk, no reward:

Tip 2 - Dress to Impress (so that we can't easily identify you when we techies start aiming for the red dots)

The majority of H1B staff augmentation workers dress poorly. They have belts that are way too big that almost loop around their waste almost two times. They come in wearing clothes that are not pressed and look like flashbacks from the 1980s. In addition they typically have no color coordination. Be sure to be color coordinated. Dress Tips:

  • Don't wear the belt that is 18 inches too big for you and wraps around your body two times.
  • Don't wear white sport socks with business casual clothes. Make sure your socks match your outfit.
  • Throw away your 1980 clothes and wear up to date business clothes.
  • Don't wear cheap shoes that don't match your slacks. If you got the shoes for 80% off, there is reason for it. They are ugly.
  • Do press your clothes by a professional dry cleaner. When you do it, yourself it looks like crap. Go to the dry cleaners!
  • Don't wear the same pants or shirts on consecutive days. At least wait a day before wearing the same clothing item again.

Tip 3 - Status Your Boss Frequently (suck your boss's dick--it is the only sex you will get in the US)

Communicate to your boss on a frequent basis the status of what you are doing and what you have done. Don't' wait for your boss to ask for a status, proactively give your boss periodic status reports. This will really impress your boss!

Tip 5 - Go for the Job Regardless of the Required Skills (yeah, like no shit, lie on the fuckin' CV like your life depends on it, which it does, scab)

If you like the job description go for it regardless if you have the technical skills or not. Most likely you will get a functional manager who conducts the interview and manages you. You will be able to easily fool the functional manager in to thinking that you are an expert in the required skill set. Then after getting on the job and making friends with other contractors on the job, you will be able to quickly pick up the skill set on the job without the boss ever knowing that you did not have a clue about the given technology. Therefore if you like the job or the location of the job go for it. If you get fired, not a big deal. There are thousands of H1B contractor positions across the United States. You are not tied down to any geographical location, so you have thousands of jobs at your finger tips.

Tip 8 - Originals of your Academic qualifications (don't let the Goras know that you got your degree from a Mumbai diploma mill)

Copy of certificates related to academic and job experience are enough to process your H1-B visa. Just to hold you till your H1-B processing is over, some employers may ask for originals. Don’t give it to them. Getting back the original certificates could be cumbersome process in case you decided not to join the company.

Tip 16 - Communication Skills are Number 1 (stop fuckin' send emails with phrases like "u r my one number customer")

The clients will base 70% of their decision making based on your communication skills. If you are able to effectively communicate with the client, you have a good chance of landing the job. Try to listen very attentively, since clients hate it when you say "Can you repeat the question?". If you are asking to the client to repeat the question on multiple occasions you are greatly reducing your chances of getting the job. You can fool them on your technical skill set, but you cannot hide poor English communication skills.

tunnel rat posted on February 23, 2011 02:05

Oldie, but goody:

Most of you don’t even need to read this post to know why outsourcing your software development work to cheaper countries may not ultimately help you. You already know why.

The thing is that many people outsource their work to IT hubs like Bangalore to save a lot of money. But the problem is that you get a low quality product at last. The reason? You tried to cut cost too much.

You cannot get a high quality work done for a low cost. Never. Quality always comes with a price.

When outsourcing to foreign countries, always try to do it to people who promise quality product, not to people who promise lower cost. Also, never ever outsource your core development work.

I am an Indian myself and let me tell you some facts I came across:

  1. Major Indian software companies are recruiting low quality programmers.
  2. A large percentage (I am afraid more that 50%) of the programmers are from non-CS backgrounds. Many are mechanical engineers, electrical/electronics engineers or civil engineers.
  3. The pay scales for fresher posts here are not the best even according to Indian standards.
  4. We don’t care for the quality of the work we do for you. Now I don’t want to piss off any one, but the fact is that seriously no one cares about the quality of their code they do for some American company which they don’t know much about. You will get quality code only if it comes from your heart – like when you code for yourself. Most Indian software engineers don’t feel any kind of commitment to their organizations (mainly because of the way companies treat employees).
  5. Part of the reason why many companies recruit low quality programmers is that the works we get here are mainly some support work or very monotonous and boring development work that looks like it will take ages to get completed. Many Indian programmers have their own pet projects which they dedicate their free time to and they concentrate on the quality of the code they produce for that pet projects instead of the projects they have to do in their organizations.
  6. I never meant that there are no quality programmers in India. There are many, but the chances are very low that big software giants will recruit these bright minds (which they cannot afford). Instead, they go for cheap mechanical engineers or graduates from some second class institution.
  7. This bullet point is supposed to occupy the place where I bash the project management BS. I don’t like bad mouthing that much. So just skip…

I guess you guys understand the situation here.

So what is the solution?

Don’t outsource. Seriously.

If your work is very monotonous and does not demand high quality, outsource. If you want a very good software product and if it the flagship product of your company, never ever outsource. You are doomed otherwise.

Of course, the comments are revealing:

I am so sick of calling tech support and getting someone whose English is so garbled I spend half the phone conversation saying.. ” excuse me can you repeat that”
I grew up in a multilingual household and I am used to thick accents but really the tech support nowadays is just unbearable. I have, on most occasions, received such poor service from untrained staff that in most cases I have to find a friend who can assist. The companies believe they are saving money but in actuality they are getting ripped off because the outsourced employee is worthless and you end up with a negative feeling toward the company that is using them.


One Word. Off-shore Sucks.

I know a lot of Indiots, I mean Indians that say they know and everything is very easy, very easy. the fact is that the majority of them are a bunch of liars,
they will lie to you wihout even blinking thier eyes just to get the job, once they land on the job they try to learn, by the time you realize they know nothing and they lie to you you have invested a lot on them and sometimes it is hard to evaluate what is more expensive, fire the Indian and get a new one or try to make the Indian to deliver. Off-shore is a bad idea, it does not matter what is the point of view, it does not work. wether we are talking about development, customer service, etc, a resource in the other side of the world with a total different mentality can not help you the same as someone in your own timezone
and with at least s similar clash.

Off-shore was, is and will always be a bad idea.

Got outsorced? Off-shore sucks

I needed to rant on why outsourcing sucks. I wish I could name ONE incident in which through outsourcing I received superior service but it hasn’t happened yet.


I am an engineer in a big company, like IBM, MS, QUALCOMM etc. I work with Indian Engineer everyday. I have never met them. But I felt that they must be the kind of bad engineer described by you. I am very frustrated by the quality of their work.

3 lines of code, one serious bug. That is my feeling.

I always thought, there must be some smart Indian engineers. But sorry, I have to say I never met an ordinary engineer. All of them suck, and the mangers suck.

About the quality and quantity of work, 10 of them can not compare with me. They just don’t know what they are doing.


I 100% agree with this post and I can do so based upon my experiences with outsourcing software/web development to India.

About a year ago we decided to try our hand at outsourcing some PHP programming for a website of ours instead of doing it ourselves. So we set out with our first company (Sanvera Solutions), agreed upon specs, requirements, and a price.

What we got was utter and pure crap. It was barely put together, coded worse than I could have done myself (and I’m a very amateur PHP coder) and took forever.

On top of that, every week or so, they would send us an email about how “hard” the work was and how they needed more money to continue. Basically each week we got one day of work and then didnt get an update for another two weeks. Each time we asked what was going on and why there wasnt work being done on the project we were always told “oh we’re on holiday, we have lots of holidays in India, we’re off for the next three weeks, oh Ramesh is on vacation”.

Finally, after 4 months of the same bullshit, we told them to take a hike. About 10% of the project had been completed.

We moved on to an independent programmer who didnt work for a company. This programmer compared to Sanvera Solutions was miles better. At the time we were very pleased. However the same issues kept arising. “It is very hard work, I need more money”. “Sorry I have been busy/on vacation/away”. Finally this programmer said he wouldnt work unless we doubled the payment.

Since we negotiate a per project fee and have very thoroughly documented our requirements, we told him to take a hike.

Finally I come to our third programmer. I’m happy to say we’re quite pleased with him. But he’s not from India, he is Russian. He did everything from scratch in about 1-2 months writing far more advanced code than the previous two programmers and has been very flexible to work with.

As well as cheaper than the previous two. So I guess we learned a lesson. Dont hire anyone from India.

tunnel rat posted on February 9, 2011 00:31

OMG, the Hinglish in Pradeep's messages is horrid, but typical of any slumdog working in corporate America today, even managers and executives.  And stalking is a pretty common practice among the "best and the brightest".  Hell, I used to get hundreds of comments a day from ghetto canines like Code Corrector and other online slumdog stalkers.  Zuckerberg should accept this and embrace this cultural phenomenon. And stop being so "xenophobic and paranoid," as some HuffPo collaborator called it!

Zuckerberg Stalker's Plea -- 'SAVE MY MOTHER'

The man accused of stalking Mark Zuckerberg claims he was only trying to reach the Facebook honcho in a last ditch effort to acquire financial assistance for his dying mother.


In a letter Pradeep Manukonda sent Mark this past January -- and obtained by TMZ -- the 31-year-old depicts himself as "a son to my mother who has become helpless in supporting his kin."

Pradeep claims his mother is suffering from a serious illness with little time to live -- though he doesn't disclose the nature of her illness.

Pradeep is also unclear about how much cash he wants from Zuckerberg -- only that he promises to "repay the entire amount incurred for her treatment."

As we previously reported, Zuck obtained a restraining order against Pradeep -- claiming he  posed a threat after he showed up at the Facebook offices and Mark's home. 

Pradeep has said he will not try to contact Mark again.

- Vineet Nayar, CEO, HCL Technologies

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